How do I Convince my Friend to Buy a Manual?

"marshknute" (marshknute)
03/28/2016 at 12:08 • Filed to: None

Short Version: My friend is an 18-year-old car spotter and wants to buy an E46 as his first car. Despite my pro-manual advice, he says he’ll probably get one with an automatic transmission. How do I convince him otherwise?

Long Version: My friend has a seriously intense passion for cars. He routinely drives 300 miles round trip just to photograph one car at a dealership, and he keeps count of every hypercar he’s seen. And yet when it comes to his first car, he says he’s “probably going to get an auto.” Translation: “a manual would be cool, but I’m not comfortable driving one yet”

And it’s not like he’s driving in LA stop-and-go traffic; he lives in rural PA and does exclusively highway driving at 6am/8pm on weekends. So it’s bullshit when he gives the excuse that, “If I was only doing weekend cruising I’d get a manual, but I’m doing a lot of driving.” Yeah, a lot of driving...in 6th gear for 2 hours at a time. If there was ever a time to be fearful of driving stick, this is absolutely NOT it. And he’ll still have access to his parents extra car (auto, minivan) if he needs to drive somewhere congested like Manhattan.

But like any good Jalop, I’ve been teaching him to drive stick on my C6 Vette, which Mr. Regular describes as the best car to learn stick on thanks to its forgiving clutch and low-end torque. And that wisdom is proving true; I can count the number of times my friend has stalled on one hand.

Of course, we all know that you don’t learn stick from a few scattered lessons. You need to do it everyday to become fluent. Unfortunately, he seems to be missing a vital gearhead chromosome; the one that makes you want to learn manual. I remember how daunting it was to learn stick, but unlike him, I went out of my way to get seat time in my dad’s manual A4. For me, learning stick was a non-negotiable rite of passage to be considered a real gearhead.

I just find it disappointing and downright confusing that someone with such an encyclopedic knowledge of cars would be so apathetic towards learning stick. I’m not saying he has to become a diehard manual proponent like me, but to straight up deny himself the opportunity to learn? That’s pretty low.

So what say you Oppo? And for your time, here’s my old manual E46 330xi.

DISCUSSION (87)

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:14

People are just afraid. My first car was a GTI with a stick and I had never driven stick until the day I bought it. Dad hopped in the passenger seat and we spent about two hours driving together in real driving scenarios where I stalled several times and was scared shitless, but after that he sent me on my own and I was fine. It’s amazing what a little bit of necessity will do to enhance your ability to perform a task.

After about 3 days it felt just the same as driving the automatics I drove with my learner’s permit, except way more engaging and rewarding. 10 years later and I’ve still yet to own anything without a stick and I drive in stop in go traffic in an urban downtown environment on a daily basis in a suit and tie and never have to think about the fact that I’m driving a stick, nor does it bother me.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:15

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/first-quote-fo…

jimz > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:15

let him buy what he wants. You’re just going to annoy the piss out of him. it’s none of your goddamn business what he drives.

Chariotoflove > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:16

Well, he has been learning stick with you; so, he has the experience to decide what he wants. Honesty, leave him be. It’s his money and his decision.

I know the mantra around here is that true driver engagement can only come with a manual, but that’s just not true. There is a lot more to driving than rowing the gears. There are many car enthusiasts who prefer to not have to select gears so they can spend their attention on other aspects of driving.

ETA: I think it’s cool of you to have been patiently teaching him so he can get the experience.

CB > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:16

Short answer: none of your business.

Long answer: it’s going to be his car and his choice. If he wants to get a manual car, he can get one later. Let him get what he wants, because this bullshit mindset that you “just find it disappointing and downright confusing that someone with such an encyclopedic knowledge of cars would be so apathetic towards learning stick” can fuck right off.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:17

You don’t. If he wants an auto let him buy an auto. He’s the one that has to live with this decision. If you convince him to get a stick and he ends up hating it for daily use then it’s your fault.

Manuals have their place but they are definitely not always the answer.

PorkchoPlissken > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:18

Kinja'd!!!

Google E46 automatic transition problems.

For Sweden > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:18

Threaten to share their browser history

Shankems > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:19

Buy the transmission that suits the character of the car and your driving expectations. For older sport oriented cars, automatic is only the answer if you really aren’t that into driving.

Newer cars change that equation.

Chariotoflove > For Sweden
03/28/2016 at 12:19

That’s hitting pretty low.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:19

No means no. Don’t force your transmission preference on him. That’s tranny rape.

For Sweden > Chariotoflove
03/28/2016 at 12:19

Worth it

misfitmascots > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:20

You don’t convince him. If he’s your friend you support his decision to buy what he wants. If he already said he doesn’t want a manual why continue trying to make him.

shop-teacher > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:20

Let him make his own decisions.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:22

You can’t really force anyone to buy anything. I tried last year and failed miserably. My best friend was looking at cars with diesel engines and wanted a VW Polo, so I showed him a nice low mileage Ford Focus with diesel engine that cost as much as comparable Polos did. But guess what, my friend got out and bought a Polo anyways.

The Ghost of Oppo > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:22

Because the auto in that car is garbage

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > PorkchoPlissken
03/28/2016 at 12:24

Bingo

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > PorkchoPlissken
03/28/2016 at 12:26

I’m not sure you needed to include “problems” in that search.

dogisbadob > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:29

well, to be fair, those hypercars are automatic-only now :p

Bytemite > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:29

The people with automatics here will tell you it’s okay, let him do what he wants. But nah, don’t listen to them, they’re lost causes. He needs to daily a manual or he might as well throw his enthusiasm out the window and get himself a beige slushmobile.

If you get an auto when a manual is a choice, you can’t honestly sit there and say that makes you just as much of an enthusiast as someone who rows their own gears in the steep hills of San Francisco. That is just plain denial.

PorkchoPlissken > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
03/28/2016 at 12:31

Ha! It actually auto filled after "e46 aut"

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:32

Show him this video:

smobgirl > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:32

This is a little weird, but: I grew up loving cars, but I HATED driving for several years after I got my license (which I didn’t even want at the time). I’m a good driver and in hindsight, the fear was pretty silly, but I also didn’t know at the time why driving made me so uncomfortable. Adding a manual to everything else would’ve been too much. So I drove an auto until I learned to love driving and wanted that extra level of connection. It’s his choice, not yours! (Though pointing out issues with that auto trans is fair, I think).

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > PorkchoPlissken
03/28/2016 at 12:32

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/first-quote-fo…

BrtStlnd > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:33

Maybe just let him get the transmission he wants.

Chariotoflove > For Sweden
03/28/2016 at 12:34

Be careful. It may be full of automatic Ferraris and Porsches. You can’t unsee that.

Liam Farrell > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:34

Have him get an old car, my friend is getting rid of his 06 A6 Wagon and looking for a 2002 or 510.

Even a lot of non-car friends are getting manuals.

BrtStlnd > Bytemite
03/28/2016 at 12:34

This is completely untrue.

yamahog > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
03/28/2016 at 12:36

Uhhhh no

Tripper > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:37

In these situations, my friends and I generally gang up on one and other and take low blows at the victim until they give in or stop talking to the rest of us for a few days.

A perfect car related example happened a few months ago:

Friend 1 “Going to look at a slightly used outback tomorrow.”

Friend 2 scoffs “sweet, [insert heinous insult]”

Me “Yea dude cool, what book club are you going to join after you pick it up?”

Friend 1 “fuck you guys, I’m trying to get something practical.”

Friend 3 “rolls eyes”

Friend 1 Buys BRZ

If you’ve already made your case for the manual and he still isn’t having it, I would let him get the auto. Some people have to learn the hard way.

cazzyodo > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:41

Tell him he won’t regret it.

I bought my car with all my MT experience coming from 4 test drives. Totally worth it.

Not a strong argument, I know but still haha

McMike > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:42

Looks like you did you best to convince him.

Doesn’t matter how lame/weak/confusing his reasons may seem, it doesn’t sounds like he wants one.

He may only be intertaining the thought for your benefit.

finn's arm > PorkchoPlissken
03/28/2016 at 12:45

Gold.

It is a 90's auto tranny. That sentence alone should make him shudder. The Getrag in the cheaper E46's wasn’t the best if I remember correctly though.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:47

Let him buy the auto.

I’m a huge car guy, and am completely capable of driving a manual. If my Montego had been a manual when I was shopping I absolutely would have still bought it.

For my daily driver I have no interest in owning a manual. Of course mine is partly influenced by terrible traffic around Detroit and a bad knee. Manual= much more movement for my knee driving.

I seriously don’t understand how it offends you guys SO MUCH that someone might want a manual.

It’s not your car - it doesn’t effect you in any way.

The true Jalop/OPPO way would be to let people drive what people like to drive and leave them alone

Party-vi > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 12:48

Tell him the autobox in the E46 is trash. BMW used a “lifetime” fluid, and dealers won’t entertain the idea of providing a fluid flush or service on the transmission, and the only proper way to service it is to have it flushed by an independent shop for oodles of money. Steptronic is slow, jerky, and throttle tip-in is something BMW hadn’t quite understood on the drive-by-wire E46.

Also, the E46 is a very rewarding car to drive, but maintaining them is a PITA if you don’t have a proper service history.

jimz > Bytemite
03/28/2016 at 12:53

Honesty, that attitude can fuck right off. Look, right now I drive a Ranger with an automatic. So in your eyes I’m less of an “enthusiast” than you. But consider this:

I was a licensed auto mechanic before I was old enough to get my driver’s license. I learned how to drive a manual while I still had my learner’s permit. In high school, I was one of two people in my shop class to get into the Student Auto Skills competition. We won the state-level contest and got to go to Washington D.C. for the national contest. After that I actually worked as a mechanic for several years, during which time I pulled and completely overhauled the diesel engine in my truck (by myself save for the machining.) That job helped pay for my engineering degree which I then turned into a decent job in the auto industry, in which I’ve worked for almost two decades now. For every car I’ve had which wasn’t under warranty I’ve done the majority of the work myself. I’ve done plenty of work on other’s cars too; I spent two weekends on my back on the ground swapping out the transaxle on a (financially strapped) co-worker’s car.

How much of that shit have you done in your life? Don’t you dare try to tell me I’m not an enthusiast because I’m not rowing my own gears in San Francisco. I’ve owned cars/trucks with manuals (Ram turbodiesel, SRT-4, two Mustang GTs) But I have to deal with this thing called “real life,” I’m not living rent-free in my mommy’s basement so I have to handle my own money, space, and time. So at this point in time I’ve had to settle on a single car, so the best vehicle for me is a Ranger, and the one I have has an automatic. I’ll save the joyriding for the motorcycles.

marshknute > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
03/28/2016 at 12:56

It’s not so much that he wants to buy an auto, but rather the fact that he seemingly has no interest in learning to drive stick.

I won’t blame someone for prioritizing an auto, but I don’t respect anyone as a gearhead unless they can drive stick, or want to learn.

BrtStlnd > jimz
03/28/2016 at 12:56

Yeah but what about my worthless label of “enthusiast”? What will I do with that?

marshknute > CB
03/28/2016 at 12:58

It’s not so much that he wants to buy an auto (his $, so he should be happy with his decision), but rather the fact that he seemingly has no interest in learning to drive stick.

I won’t blame someone for prioritizing an auto, but I don’t respect anyone as a gearhead unless they can drive stick, or want to learn.

boredalways > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 13:00

FFS you’re 18! Eight-mother effen-teen!!! Have your balls not drop yet?

Us elders reserve the right to withhold your “Man Card” if you get an autotragic E46.

Plus your homey is teaching you in his C6 to drive stick, and still want to puss out!?

SMH...damn kids these days.

I guarantee that you will regret not getting stick. Wait until you get closer to 30 before getting the tragic.

Bytemite > jimz
03/28/2016 at 13:02

What I said obviously doesn’t apply to you. I’m pretty impressed with your automotive resume. If manual wasn’t a choice for you when you got your Ranger, then that’s obviously not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the new drivers who have every opportunity to learn and buy a manual car but instead give in to fear and apathy and just go drive automatics for the rest of their life instead.

BJ > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 13:04

I don’t respect anyone as a photographer unless they develop their own film.

Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? I understand your enthusiasm, but try not to enforce your world view on others. We all have our own interests and our own priorities. If someone doesn’t like the same thing you do, which one of you is wrong?

Also, there might be a difference between "gearhead" and "driving enthusiast".

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 13:16

So do you not respect someone who doesn’t match up with all your automotive tendencies?

I personally hate foreign cars, but I sure as hell can respect their capabilities.

Do you prefer air conditioning or windows when driving? Do you not respect the person who like the opposite?

marshknute > dogisbadob
03/28/2016 at 13:21

I think that’s exactly the problem. I was born in 92' so the supercars of my childhood were either sold with a manual, or a clunky/unrefined single-clutch auto. The autos were objectively faster, but subjectively flawed, so the manual was still considered the enthusiast choice. But he grew up in the era of perfect dual-clutches, so it’s understandable that he would view the manual as an outdated relic.

But he doesn’t seem to realize that the only cars he’ll be able to afford in the near future are old used cars that had awful slushboxes. But from his perspective, it’s awkward/slow/scary to drive a manual and normal to drive an auto, so why should he jump ship?

Cash Rewards > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 13:23

You can’t respect someone who doesn’t want to spend time learning something he prioritize less than you? And this effects you how? Sounds like the problem is you. Being a good jalop isn’t learning stick, it’s being open and respectful of others’ appreciation of cars instead of judgemental.

Group B Enthusiast - Captain of the supercharged barge > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 13:23

Unfortunately, those people who have no interest in manual gearboxes, will likely never develop an appreciation for them. I’ve let some of my friends play with my stick shift cars in parking lots, and although they thought it was a hoot when they finally figured out how to cruise around in 1st gear, they still have no interest in owning one.

Just let him get what he wants, and continue to encourage his automotive obsession. He’s the only one who can convince him to learn stick.

66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 13:25

Show him this article maybe? Also tell him that an E46 is worth driving manual, once he learns how to rev match and heel toe he will love it.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 13:29

As another gearhead who doesn’t feel the absolute need to drive a manual, I say don’t waste your time. Let him buy what he wants.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > CB
03/28/2016 at 13:29

^^^^^^§|

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 13:31

but I don’t respect anyone as a gearhead unless they can drive stick, or want to learn.

Not sure if you mean to, but you sound a bit snotty.

Flyboy is FAA certified insane > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 13:37

I mean, replacement cost for parts might play a factor. A re-done ZF auto is always going to cost more than the getrag row-your-own unit in those cars.

traderQAMobileTestAutomationMobileBoostOn > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 13:40

I must be missing that chromosome too.

traderQAMobileTestAutomationMobileBoostOn > CB
03/28/2016 at 13:43

YES

traderQAMobileTestAutomationMobileBoostOn > Luc - The Acadian Oppo
03/28/2016 at 13:50

If you convince him to get a stick and he ends up hating it for daily use then it’s your fault.

Pure gold! Im in the same boat, also a victim of hate for choosing automatic for my DD.

MY CAR MY CHOICE!!

marshknute > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
03/28/2016 at 13:53

Every assertion you just made is completely incorrect, and completely unrelated to what I said. Please re-read my comment.

I understand and respect that people buy cars based on their own personal priorities, and I don’t hold that against them.

What I can’t respect is a self-professed gearhead who doesn’t take the initiative to learn manual. Again, you don’t have to like manuals, but you’re not a true gearhead if you don’t at least want to learn.

MGS315 > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 13:57

Tell him that Europeans think he's a pansy for not driving one.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > traderQAMobileTestAutomationMobileBoostOn
03/28/2016 at 13:58

I can drive manual no problem at all and about half of my cars has been with a stick but when it comes to daily drivers it’s automatic only for me.

“Stuck in gridlock? no problem just sit back relax and enjoy some tunes.”

I’ll never have a manual daily driver again.

marshknute > sm70- why not Duesenberg?
03/28/2016 at 13:58

I don’t see why. I put the “want” clause in there for a reason. You don’t have to like manuals, but you should at the very least have the desire to know how to drive one.

Otherwise, you’re isolating yourself off from every single pre-2010 sports car.

marshknute > sm70- why not Duesenberg?
03/28/2016 at 14:02

I don’t think you have to prefer manual, or even like it, but at the very least you should have a desire to learn how to drive stick.

Because it you don’t know how, aren’t you limiting yourself to only cars from 2000 and later?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 14:10

No.

You do not get to define what does and does not make someone a gear head.

Because a guy likes auto transmissions doesn’t mean he’s not a gear head.

Did you know that auto transmissions are actually better for certain types of racing even? Specifically drag racing (more specifically bracket drag racing) because of more consistent shifting and times?

You’re being the stereotypical “must like manuals” guy and the dialogue is getting pretty tiresome on that front.

So you’re saying anyone buying new hypercars that don’t even have manuals available can’t be gear heads?

CB > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 14:10

So? What’s wrong with that? Maybe they’re not interested in driving a pre-2010 sports car. Maybe they like big floaty Cadillacs, luxobarges, cruisers, whatever. It seems narrow minded to define someone as a gearhead based on their desire to drive stick. Imagine if we said people who liked Camrys or drove Corollas weren’t gearheads. That would be idiotic.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 14:11

I’ll whip out this article again.

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/i-used-to-take…

PorkchoPlissken > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
03/28/2016 at 14:23

100% opposed to tranny rape.

Chuckles > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
03/28/2016 at 14:48

Your comment deserves all of the stars. A gear head is passionate about automobiles. It’s as simple as that.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 14:51

Somebody is a car enthusiast if they like cars. Not all cars, not sports cars from before 2010. Any car or cars. There don’t need to be trivial indicators for if they are a “real” car person.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Chuckles
03/28/2016 at 14:51

Exactly.

Some people like JDM tuners, some people like muscle cars, some people like trucks.

It’s about caring about the cars/trucks that are important to you, not what someone ELSE says you’re allowed to like.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 14:52

Mainstream cars have had autos since the 50's. Plus, someone who is exclusively interested in brand new cars or even minivans is still a car person.

marshknute > CB
03/28/2016 at 14:56

You’re still misunderstanding me, so let’s try an analogy: You can’t call yourself a Foodie if you decide you don’t like mushrooms but you’ve never tried them.

If you do try mushrooms and you actually don’t like them, then I can both respect your opinion and respect your self-declared title of Foodie.

CB > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 15:00

But you said that he’s driven your manual Corvette? To put that in your analogy, he’s tried the mushrooms, hasn’t he?

marshknute > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
03/28/2016 at 15:08

Again, you’re not listening. READ my comments carefully so you don’t make ignorant responses. Here’s what I last said to you:

“What I can’t respect is a self-professed gearhead who doesn’t take the initiative to learn manual. Again, you don’t have to like manuals , but you’re not a true gearhead if you don’t at least want to learn .”

Emphasis mine. Don’t have to like manuals =/= must like manuals. It’s pretty impossible for me to state it any more clearly. And yet, your immediate response was:

“You’re being the stereotypical “must like manuals” guy and the dialogue is getting pretty tiresome on that front.”

Please, READ my comments carefully before responding, because I put a lot of thought and care into both my word choice and sentence structure. All I ask for is that you demonstrate reciprocal thought and care in your responses.

marshknute > CB
03/28/2016 at 15:18

See original article:

Of course, we all know that you don’t learn stick from a few scattered lessons. You need to do it everyday to become fluent.

Ok, I’ll admit it’s not a great analogy, but he’s at most smelled the mushrooms, not had a full taste. Giving up after a few lessons is like trying warm Natty Light and declaring you don’t like beer. I made that mistake and wasted 3 years in college thinking all beer was just as unpleasant. Now I regret not giving it a fair chance.

Dolby109 > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 15:22

I’m with you man, I feel exactly like you described.
I’m not sure you can get much more beyond your argument. Manuals are just more fun and engaging to drive...Sure in some (mostly $80k+) cars a dual clutch auto is technically faster, but at the cost of the car doing another major component of the work for you. Nobody would take a (future) autonomous car to the race track and have it race for you even if it was faster than you are, so why even bother with the excuse that automatics are faster.
Even then the new Z06 and Viper in manual trim have both slain a long list of vastly more expensive automatic cars.

In the end probably the best argument is that BMW automatics for the non-M-series are shitty...like not-kidding-shifts-slower-than-a-manual shitty.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 15:25

I am thinking about my responses.

Fine you’re not saying you must LIKE the manual.

But you also can’t say the guy has to want to learn it.

I don’t like turbo cars and I have no desire to learn about building a car with turbo or owning a car with a turbo.

I don’y like diesels in cars or trucks and have no desire to work with them or drive them

So now I’ve provided you 5 different examples (between this and previous posts) of how you can’t say not liking or not having interest in one portion of the automotive field doesn’t block you out from being a car guy or a gearhead.

Just because I (and a bunch of others who have agreed with all my posts in this thread) won’t accept that you’re right doesn’t mean I’m not comprehending your comments. Your alienating people from cars and that’s not cool. You’re also becoming incredibly condescending in your responses. Whether you see that or not does not make it less true.

jimz > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 15:41

We’re not misunderstanding you. You’ve arrogantly taken it upon yourself to define what an enthusiast “should be” and are trying to force your preferences on other people.

Stop it. Nobody died and made you God.

jimz > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 15:44

We ARE reading them, jackass. You just steadfastly refuse to believe anyone would disagree with you.

Good god, if I was your friend and you told me you “don’t respect me” because I don’t care to learn to drive stick, I really doubt I’d ever want to be around you again. You are incredibly shallow and self-absorbed.

jimz > Bytemite
03/28/2016 at 15:46

So? If it makes them happy then what goddamned difference does it make to you? What is it with you people that you’ve got so much of your ego involved in trying to force everyone else to see it your way?

jimz > Tripper
03/28/2016 at 15:47

what elitist garbage. I’m glad I’m not your friend.

Tripper > jimz
03/28/2016 at 16:04

Whoa buddy, the friends I’m referring to might as well be my brothers. It could be a car or it could be anything we just give each other shit, we’re not doing it to be hurtful. I’m glad we’re not friends too, since you’re soo sensitive.

marshknute > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
03/28/2016 at 16:21

Thank you for rephrasing and articulating these points clearly. That’s a response worth taking seriously in its entirety.

I guess I find it really difficult to respect someone’s opinion if they don’t give the common courtesy to at least try to understand that subject, especially if that subject is so intimately connected with your true passions.

Maybe I’m just becoming someone’s dad, but haven’t yet learned to let people make their own mistakes. I certainly didn’t learn from my dad’s unreliable BMW’s, and had to buy the POS pictured above to learn it for myself, and desperately want to spare my friend the same fate. I guess I’ll take satisfaction knowing I mitigated his probable mistake by talking him down from spending his $5K on a trashed 330Ci ZHP to a respectably maintained 325Ci.

Maybe I’m unreasonable (enough people seem to think so), but I just think learning to drive a manual is kind of required for gearheads, resources permitting.

marshknute > jimz
03/28/2016 at 16:39

You have no right to claim he read my comment when he directly contradicted my previous remarks. In fact, he even admitted that he misspoke in his subsequent reply.

And does a parent have to respect their kid’s choice to do drugs? No. A good parent accepts those decisions as reality and tries to offer the necessary support and advice. As a young adult without kids myself, I guess I just haven’t yet learned to let people make their own mistakes.

I will admit, however, that as a collective whole you’ve convinced me to give up my manual transmission sales pitch and just learn to accept his decision. That doesn’t mean I respect his reasoning, but I do understand his reasoning, and it’s not like I’ll un-friend him for buying an auto. I’ll still accompany him on the test drive and try to educate his buying process based on my unfortunate experience owning an E46.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 16:42

That second paragraph is my point.

It doesn’t have to be intimately connected with this passion. It can be, but it doesn’t have to be. Example. I own a late 60's loud as hell red muscle car and I’m taking my Milan RallyXing in May (only that long of a wait because of a rain out) but neither have manuals. You can have fun in an auto. See what I mean? I’m just saying it’s not such a black vs white scenario. It’s a huge hobby and a huge field of interest. You have to let people live in the gray (unless it’s on Kinja, then let the poor bastards out).

On the topic of a 5k 330 I would recommend something a lot more reliable for 5k. That’s a tiny budget for a car, especially one you want performance out of.

5k and a desire for performance you should tell him to look up a Fox Body lol. More reliable, easy to fix, cheap parts.

AM3R shamefully returns > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 17:20

I totally agree with you. What I would do is let just keep letting him drive your C6 if you are comfortable with it. Let him take it out on real roads. If he's good enough, let him do a quick pull through 2-3 gears so he can have some fun. I'm currently teaching my brother how to drive stick on my 335i (clutch delay valve, makes it a little different to use the clutch, but overall fairly easily to learn on) and he isn't a car enthusiast by any means. He just sees how much I enjoy it, and figures he might as well learn just to have the ability to do it.

marshknute > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
03/28/2016 at 17:34

Believe me, I’ve exhausted myself trying to sell him on cheap/reliable Miata’s, Fox Body’s, Bugeye WRX’s, etc. Literally ANYTHING but a cheap German car. I even game him copies of my E46's repair bills ($5K in 7 months!) to try to scare him straight, but no luck.

I also showed him the repair bills for my first car, a 95' Miata, just to prove to him that even a supposedly bulletproof Japanese car will need regular maintenance.

He’s just not interested unless it comes with a BMW badge. The best I’ve been able to do is make him understand that he’s better off buying a well-maintained base model instead of a trashed big engine model.

But I keep remembering that I ignored exactly that same advice when I bought my E46, so I’m in no position to criticize his stubbornness. So if he’s sticking with BMW, I’d at least want him to do it right and get a manual, but that’s probably not in the cards.

Bytemite > jimz
03/28/2016 at 17:58

Why are you being so anal about something so rational.

The dude likes cars, the dude wants to get his first car, the dude is scared of manuals because of inexperience. The experienced comes and tells him hey man no need to be afraid we’ve all been there, just take the plunge, its worth it. It’s something he doesn’t know yet but will appreciate soon after he gets bored of slushboxes.

No ones forcing anything, we are offering advice based on what we’ve come to know through experience. The same experience he will go through probably.

As for all the auto-defenders and slushbox white knights, let’s face it, you guys settled, you’re old and your knees are brittle maybe, and hey I get it. You had your manual days and can’t bother to drive your car properly anymore, no shame. But dont go around telling me it’s none of anyone’s business what you drive when your group is the first one to say “oh I drive a beige auto camry, and am only an enthusiast when it comes to internet forums but as soon as its time to talk with my wallet and effort, I’ll take the backseat. After all, I’m just as much an enthusiast as the guy who actually enjoys driving and paid his cash to row his own.”

There’s no ego involved, it’s just opinions dude and if he is an enthusiast, very likely he will be better off in the future with a manual. Simple?

CB > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 18:38

Once again, though, his choice, none of your business. If he doesn’t want to now, there’s nothing wrong with that.

Chuckles > marshknute
03/28/2016 at 21:35

“What I can’t respect is a self-professed gearhead who doesn’t take the initiative to learn manual.”

This is the part of your statement that bothers me. That’s like saying “I can’t respect anyone who claims to be into music but doesn’t try to get into Miles Davis.” Not everyone likes jazz.

marshknute > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
03/28/2016 at 22:00

I’m pretty sure tranny rape is what happened when I stuffed 5 people into my NA Miata and then shifted into 2nd.